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 Point of impact v. Point of aim
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tn hp

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2011 :  09:13:32  Show Profile  Send tn hp a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I have a "new to me" BHP in .40 cal.. This pistol is the first year of production and has the "old style" adjustable sights. My first 100 rounds were WWB 165gr. FMJ's. The point of impact was 4 to 5 inches above the point of aim.

The rear sight was adjusted "down", is now "bottomed" out and the POI is still high. The front sight is a standard factory OE.

Perhaps the bullet weight is the issue and I have some 180gr. To load. Just wanted to get other opinions.

thanks

George M.

USA
172 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2011 :  09:50:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Generally speaking, due to bullet velocity and recoil, lighter bullets hit lower. Try different bullet weights, if nothing works you must replace one or both sights. George M.

George M.
A proud Texan.
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chuntaro

USA
1584 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2011 :  12:02:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know this is a big stretch but is it possible someone lowered the front sight or replaced the tall one for the adjustable sight with fixed sight model front sight. You do not state what range you are getting the four or five inch deviation from but that seems like a great deal. My fixed sight 40 cal versions have done fine with 155 gr, 165 grain and 180 grain loads.
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tn hp

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2011 :  15:01:31  Show Profile  Send tn hp a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
All shooting, so far, has been at 15 yds. I own a 9mm BHP and do not believe that the front sight on this pistol has been changed or altered.

Thanks for the replies thus far!
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bountyhunter

327 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2011 :  23:38:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lighter bullets hit lower than heavier ones WHEN LOADED TO THE SAME FINAL VELOCITY mainly because it takes more powder to make the heavy one go that speed and that creates more recoil. The barrel of every pistol rotates upward at the instant of firing due to recoil. That effect varies widely based on grip strength, stance, etc. If you use a bore laser on a "sighted in" gun you will find the bore always lined up below the sight line to allow rotation at firing.

I have had this "variation" problem with MANY stock guns, even two "identical" models like a SW 66 revolver. Same barrel length, same sights, etc one hits with the sight centered and the other can't be adjusted in. I usually file down the sights to zero them.

Mass made guns all vary, some vary a lot more than others.
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Burgs

USA
1817 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2011 :  15:33:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I sent my adjustable sighted Standard model to ToolTech for tritium sights, I requested a taller front sight to give me more vertical adjustment. It was zeroed in OK but also bottomed out. I did the same thing with a Springfield Armory Target - I put a taller front sight on that too.

I have found over the years that a lot of my adjustable sighted revolvers and semi-autos would only zero with the rear sight all the way down - which kind of defeats the purpose of having a fully adjustable sight.

I've also noticed that once zeroed for elevation and windage I rarely had to ever change it again.

Cordially, ~Burgs

Edited by - Burgs on 09/13/2011 00:35:24
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tranteruk

United Kingdom
5 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2011 :  15:44:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
May I suggest you give some thought to what distance you want to shoot at most of the time, and try to get it bang on for that distance. That might depend on whether you have it primarily for defence or target use. The .40 seems fairly flat shooting, if zeroed for 25yds I think they should only fall a couple of inches at 50yds.

The last HP I owned was .40S&W, but I didn't have it long enough to become truly familiar with it.

DVC
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Cliph

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2011 :  23:26:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is it possible that the design is for a "6 O'clock hold"?

You got's to be hard...and quick!
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bountyhunter

327 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2011 :  13:06:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's generally the excuse I hear gun makers use when the guns shoot high. It makes absolutely no sense to have a combat weapon aimed that way, and they don't build them that way on purpose.
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chuntaro

USA
1584 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2011 :  13:23:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An adj sighted gun ought to be able to dial em in from six or from twelve.
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tn hp

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  07:26:37  Show Profile  Send tn hp a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
A new Novak front sight, almost twice the height of the factory sight, has been installed. A range report will follow after this weekend.

Novak makes, as I am sure most of you know, replacement front and rear sights to fit the factory dove tail cuts. Wil Novak was very helpful on this issue.
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chuntaro

USA
1584 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  07:45:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is my understanding the rear dovetail of the mk lll browning does require minor machine modification to accept the mk lll Novak rear sight. The front sight dovetail needs no change. The important thing is you have your mk lll straightened out.

Edited by - chuntaro on 10/04/2011 07:47:50
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OIF2

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  10:24:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Being a former bullseye shooter, I HAVE found that most guns, when shooting at either 20 or 25 yards, are set for a 6 o'clock hold. This is especially true of European pistols. I have shot both Israeli and German police-contracted BHPs with the tiny V-notch sights. Both shot superb, centered groups with ball, using a 6 o'clock hold. My T-series commercial is the same. Ditto for Hi Standard .22 match pistols. I have changed out most of my S&W revolver front sights for taller ones because of the same issue. Look at the old "Shooting the Revolver" pamphlets that came with S&W M&P revolvers from the 1940's and '50's and you'll see an illustrated 6 o'clock hold in the pamphlet. I learned to shoot a center-hold (called the "Navy hold") in bullseye long ago, when I started. Easier for timed and rapid-fire sequences, but a pain because it ALMOST always means a taller front sight. When I test a new gun now I always shoot a first group using a 6 o'clock POA. Usually, it's centered elevation-wise.
Bob

Edited by - OIF2 on 10/04/2011 10:50:46
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chuntaro

USA
1584 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  10:46:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob:

I do not know if you ever played with ppc at all but a stock 6"" s and w with adj sights could be adjusted to hit the 10 ring of a b-27 from 50 yards using a neck hold. The same gun could also shoot center hold if desired. Now I have never played with any adjustable browning has used but unless a spring is worn or missing, there ought to be enough adjustment to at least draw a circle around the clock of a b27 x ring in the nine ring at 15 yards. Bottomed out adjustable rear and even two inches high would leave me scratching my head.
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OIF2

USA
285 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  11:02:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Roger that, "Chuntaro". When I shot PPC, we sent our 6" S&W L-frames back to the factory for the "tall sight" option that gave the shooter lots of elevation to shoot a neck-hold. I shot a center-hold at 25 and a neck-hold at 50. John Pride, our resident PPC champion, shot neck-hold all the way through the course, except for the 7-yard line. One of the few guns I owned that didn't require a front sight change was a custom factory-tuned Python that shot a neck-hold (10 clicks down from a 25 yd center-hold) with Elliason sights. Luckily for me, most of the guns I've bought have PINNED front sights, and a front-sight change isn't a big deal.
Bob

Pinned front post "Patridge" style that is pinned. My favorite front sight.

Edited by - OIF2 on 10/04/2011 11:04:27
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